What is it Tom??

That's bait!!

She really went ape-shit when I said that "Body positivity was invented by fat people after they threw a hissy fit because a doctor called them overweight." Things became less coherent from then on.

AFAIK body positivity was actually "invented" to help people feel better about stuff that isn't in line with traditional beauty standards but also isn't exactly avoidable (for example stretch marks from pregnancies, etc). It also sort of drives the idea that you don't have to look like a supermodel or be totally ripped or anything to feel good about yourself - you can be perfectly healthy without a 6-pack. Which isn't to say that pursuing that type of body is a bad thing for people who choose to do that, but even if its attainable it just isn't something that jives with everyone's work/life balance and whatnot so its also fine to stick to keeping-yourself-in-shape exercise and hold off on the bodybuilding. 

Now obviously there are morbidly obese people pushing stuff like the health at every size approach and whatnot, but I think you'll find that their voices are sort of disproportionately magnified by everybody making fun of them. So while what you say may be true about that slice of the "body positivity crowd" a lot of it doesn't really have to do with health/training at all but more cosmetic stuff.

Most Westerners are overweight. They tell themselves they can be just as healthy at the weight they are at. Which is a lie.

The more body positivity, the fatter people will become. The more messaging about how being fat is unhealthy and unattractive, the slimmer people will become.

That isn't necessarily true. Very often weight gain is a symptom of other, more serious disorders (such as mental issues - if somebody  is too depressed to clean their living space they probably won't be counting calories either, for example), or socioeconomic factors that prevent people from being able to readily access fresh food.

Messaging about how being fat is unhealthy and unattractive will only help an extreme minority of people while making the problem exponentially worse for people whose weight gain already stems from mental issues/lack of self-esteem/etc.

MOST Westerners are overweight. Most. Explain that.

MOST Westerners are overweight. Most. Explain that.

I did in my previous response. Did you read it? I'm not saying that poor diet doesn't cause obesity - just that poor diet is usually a result of other, more serious factors. Sure, poor diet is certainly exacerbated by the surge of easy-to-obtain junk/fast food that is readily available in the modern world, but unless you have some sort of plan to remove all the McDonald's, Doritos, etc. from the west, it'd probably be better to focus on empowering people rather than calling them "unhealthy and unattractive".

The world is becoming fatter and fatter as messages about how being fat is healthy and attractive increase.

What percentage of people in our home countries are overweight? It’s the majority.

Correlation does not equal causation. You're taking two incredibly broad statements and using them to build a false narrative in your mind.

There are a variety of medical disorders that are fairly common among women that cause weight gain

There's pretty much only one, emotional eating.

Most of the time, when women seek help from medical professionals, they are told they just need to lose weight.

What else do they expect the doctor to tell them? Go LARPing on Thursdays?

The problem with this is, these disorders cause the weight gain and make it difficult to lose the weight. Often, these women cut calories, try different diets (both healthy and unhealthy), and work out like crazy but can't lose the weight, or even gain weight. That's because the weight isn't the problem, the weight is the symptom. When women have been under eating and over exercising, but doctors keep telling them their problem is their weight and they just need to try harder, it can create a multitude of other problems, both physically and emotionally. A lot of these women really start to hate themselves and their bodies and they feel like failures. So then when someone tells them they should learn to love their bodies at any weight, that can mean the world to them. It can be the spark that ends the cycle and allows them to stop abusing their bodies.

There's a right way to lose fat (notice I specifically wrote fat, not weight) and there are plenty of wrong ways.
Dieting = wrong way
exercising the way fat woman like this do it = wrong way
generally any quick fix = wrong way

They inevitably fail because they exercise, they don't train, and they view it as torture. Unless you're some kind of masochist, you're eventually going to cease doing whatever is torturous  be it exercise or dieting and you're back to where you started. They then look for the next fad diet or "magic" exercise (fashionable exercise which requires the least amount of effort, typically yoga) and... they fail. Soon enough after exercising and eating the wrong way over and over again, they'll start exploring reasons why their failure is someone else's fault or societies fault and PRESTO... body positivity, fat-acceptance etc.
It's essentially trying to make yourself feel ok about failing. I maintain that if you offered a body positive fat person a magic pill to suddenly turn into a super model, they'd abandon their body positive nonsense and grab that pill faster than an ajjuma grabs an empty subway seat during rush hour.

I agree that fat is the symptom, but I believe that 99% of the time it's the symptom of emotional issues. Someone with incredibly low self-esteem, for example, is going to, unconsciously, resort to every mental trick in the book to protect their ego. This typically entails playing the victim and blaming others:

- I have a health issue
- I'm in too much pain
- The exercises are too tiring
- I don't like the gym
- People at the gym stare at me
- Healthy food makes me sick
- I have a slow metabolism
- It's my genetics
- My doctor is mean

I'm not criticizing you. I just wanted to point out "body positivity" doesn't mean accepting an unhealthy lifestyle. It means learning not to hate yourself for your size and to feel beautiful in your own skin.

I'm not scared of criticism, nobody should be. It's healthy and allows us to grow, I don't take anything personally and I appreciate the clarification on what boy positivity means.

“Body Positive” means that you don’t have to look like a movie star.

Movie stars don’t even look like that! They cut water for a couple days to get the “ripped look” for a half day shooting!

Perhaps, to get that last little bit of definition to pop, but honestly, the look is definitely achievable for anyone of any age. Genetics only really matter when you go into the competitive side. V-cut abs and all that... it's not hard, it just takes consistency and the correct approach. I agree, not everyone needs to be shredded, healthy is more than enough. Shredded is simply for people who want to take things a step further and excel.

I posted a picture of myself the last time this topic came up. I am almost 50, technically “obese”, but I have normal blood pressure, and walk ~5 km a day.

Your blood pressure is an indicator of a number of things, particularly your cardiovascular health. You can certainly have a healthy heart, but still carry a lot of fat. Unsurprisingly, this happens when you focus on cardio which, of course, trains your cardiovascular system, but isn't always the most effective for fat loss. Blood pressure alone isn't enough of an indicator. The fat ingrains improper movement mechanics and excessive stress on your joints, along with other complications. Not trying to single you out or anything, kudos for your achievements, just trying to make the point that you CAN NOT consider yourself healthy and risk free just because you have a healthy heart, but are carrying an excess of fat.

Even though I am not an athlete, I have a Northern European athletic build. Muscle weighs more than fat!

Muscle is denser than fat. You're not gifted or born with an athletic build, you must've trained to acquire and maintain it.

There's pretty much only one, emotional eating.

That's completely untrue. There's PCOS, hypothyroidism, and autoimmune disorders, just to name a few.

What else do they expect the doctor to tell them? Go LARPing on Thursdays?   

No, they expect the doctor to tell them why they're having problems instead of telling them the aren't trying hard enough to lose the weight. There's a reason they're not losing weight, while many of them are under eating and over exercising. They expect the doctor to listen to their symptoms and then tell them the reason behind them and how to fix them. Or at least do some tests if they don't know the exact problem.

There's a right way to lose fat (notice I specifically wrote fat, not weight) and there are plenty of wrong ways.
Dieting = wrong way
exercising the way fat woman like this do it = wrong way
generally any quick fix = wrong way

First of all, there's not a "fat woman" way to exercise. Many of these women weight train and do cardio at the gym, they try to eat clean, they try paleo or keto, and they try to learn what foods trigger their flair ups. Because these very real disorders that are not just "emotional eating" have a host of other symptoms that can be worsened with food sensitivities and doing too much or the wrong kind of exercise.

They then look for the next fad diet or "magic" exercise (fashionable exercise which requires the least amount of effort, typically yoga) and... they fail. Soon enough after exercising and eating the wrong way over and over again, they'll start exploring reasons why their failure is someone else's fault or societies fault and PRESTO... body positivity, fat-acceptance etc. 

These women fail because their doctors don't set them up for success. If you have one of these health problems, there are often other problems that need to be fixed first, such as cortisol levels, adrenal function, and abortion issues. If these other problems aren't taken care of, then they will fail.

It's essentially trying to make yourself feel ok about failing. I maintain that if you offered a body positive fat person a magic pill to suddenly turn into a super model, they'd abandon their body positive nonsense and grab that pill faster than an ajjuma grabs an empty subway seat during rush hour.

Again, body positivity is learning that you only have one body, and you should learn to love yourself no matter what weight you are. It's not claiming one body is more beautiful than another. It's not saying that being overweight is more beautiful than being thin. It's learning to be confident instead of shaming yourself.

I agree that fat is the symptom, but I believe that 99% of the time it's the symptom of emotional issues. Someone with incredibly low self-esteem, for example, is going to, unconsciously, resort to every mental trick in the book to protect their ego. This typically entails playing the victim and blaming others:

- I have a health issue
- I'm in too much pain
- The exercises are too tiring
- I don't like the gym
- People at the gym stare at me
- Healthy food makes me sick
- I have a slow metabolism
- It's my genetics
- My doctor is mean
 

Emotional issues are another symptom of the hormone imbalances, and hearing doctors dismiss their problems doesn't help.

Yes, those are excuses, but that doesn't mean there isn't any legitimacy to them. These disorders cause fatigue, joint and muscle pain, digestive problems, absorption issues, among other things. If you're not absorbing enough nutrients from the food you're eating, it can cause a lot of problems.

For example, many people with Hashimoto's disease aren't absorbing enough zinc, which causes low stomach acid, which makes it difficult to digest raw produce and other healthy foods. But a lot of these people aren't aware of the cause. They just know they can't digest it.
They also have problems with their adrenals and stress, both physical and emotional. For many of them, intense training or intense exercise will leave them fatigued and can cause a flare up. They actually need to do low intensity exercises like walking or "fashionable" yoga until they fix their adrenal issues. This would actually help them lose weight in the beginning until they are healthy enough to do something more intense.

If more doctors would teach these things to their patients instead of telling them to "just lose weight", there would be a lot more success.

I didn't come here to argue or debate. I came here to point out a problem that is very real for a lot of women. You can choose to consider what I've said, look into it yourself if you wish, or dismiss everything I've said and continue believing women are only fat and unable to lose weight because of emotional eating and body positivity. That's up to you.

Muscle Mass: 33.4 kg
Fat Mass: 40.5 kg
BMI: 34.1
Percent Body Fat: 40.7%

Honestly man, you are obese. It's great you are healthy, but you could be more healthy if you reduced the amount of fat on your body from 90 lbs to a lesser amount.

...didn't he say in his own post that he's obese, or did I misread it?